Response from Hunter on youtube:
Your argument fails because it misidentifies the problem the gospels address. Death is not the problem Jesus came to fix, SIN is. Sin is the problem.You claim that Christians misunderstand the problem that the Gospel is solving but it is clearly you that misunderstands this. Sin is the problem, sin is what leads to death, sin hurts humanity and separates them from God. By taking the punishment we owed, we are able to find forgiveness for our sins which then leads to us being able to inherit eternal life. Death is not the primary problem it is merely a consequence of sin. You are confusing the cause (sin) and the effect (death), as Jesus came to root out the cause which therefore gets rid of the effect of sin. If death were the problem, than forgiveness, repentance and justification would be unnecessary.
You commit an equivocation fallacy.You shift between-Physical death-Spiritual death-Conscious existence-Eternal punishment…as if they are interchangeable.I could go on and on but must I say more? Your foundational premise of death being the fundamental problem is false and therefore all claims that follow are tainted by the faulty foundation you argue upon. Not to mention, the verses you have very specifically chosen, leave out all the myriad of verses that do directly talk about hell. Also there are some Christians out there that believe in annihilationism and this is not considered a heretical belief by most of the church. But even Annihilationist’s treat sin as the primary issue and not death.”Adam did not give people bad attitudes, he gave them the grave” Uhhhhhh no, he allowed sin into the world. Tying back to my point about Jesus’ main mission being to save us from sin. Honestly as I watch this, you keep coming back to the point of death being the main problem so I don’t really have anything else to add because your biggening premise is false. I could go on a long tangent about your point of Christians saying death is an issue but then believing that spirits are eternal so it’s not really death… but there is no point because your definition of death is fallacious (Equivocation fallacy).
my summary of Hunter’s main points:
- Hunter says my argument fails because it misidentifies the gospel’s main problem: he claims sin is the primary problem, and death is only a consequence of sin.
- He argues sin separates people from God, harms humanity, and leads to death; Jesus’ mission, in his view, is to remove sin (the cause) which then removes death (the effect).
- He claims Christ took the punishment humans owed so people can receive forgiveness, which then allows them to inherit eternal life.
- He says if death were the real problem, then forgiveness, repentance, and justification would be unnecessary—so he treats my premise as logically inconsistent.
- He accuses me of an equivocation fallacy, saying you shift between meanings of “death” (physical death, spiritual death, conscious existence, eternal punishment) as though they’re interchangeable.
- He claims my foundation (death as the core issue) is false, so everything built on it is “tainted.”
- He says I select verses that support your view while ignoring “many verses” that, in his view, teach hell.
- He notes some Christians are annihilationists, and says even they still treat sin as the main issue, not death.
- He rejects the statement “Adam gave people the grave,” insisting instead that Adam allowed sin into the world.
- He concludes there’s no point addressing more because he believes my definition of “death” is fallacious and your main premise is wrong.
My response to Hunter the Christian:
You are not Adam. You are not Israel. You are not Noah—yet you keep trying to build an ark in your backyard. Adam was the one who sinned and began to die; we are not Adam. What we inherit from Adam is death, not his personal act of sin. Paul is explicit: “Through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death passed to all mankind” (Romans 5:12). Death passed to us—not Adam’s guilt. And because death is now operating in us, we sin. We do not sin and then die; we die and therefore sin.
This is where Christianity constantly misreads Scripture. It takes what applied to specific people in specific covenants—Adam, Noah, Israel—and wrongly applies it to everyone. Noah had to build an ark because he was Noah. You are not. Likewise, Adam’s sin was Adam’s—but the death that resulted from it is what spread to all of us. Paul spends all of Romans 5 making this distinction clear. Sin originated with Adam, but death is what reigns over us (Romans 5:14, 17).
So when you claim our sins cause death, you are reversing Paul’s gospel. Scripture teaches the opposite: death produces sin. Read Romans 5 in its entirety and the whole Bible starts to make sense.
You say, “Death is not the problem Jesus came to fix?” Are you serious? According to Paul, death is exactly the problem Christ came to deal with. We need to be clear about how closely sin and death are connected in Paul’s gospel. You and I are not Adam—he is the one man who sinned and then began to die. We, on the other hand, inherit death from Adam, and because we inherit death, we sin. Paul does not say that Adam’s personal act of sin is passed into us; he says death is.
In Romans 5, Paul clearly writes that “through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and thus death passed through into all mankind, on which all sinned” (Romans 5:12). Death passed to all, and on the basis of that death condition, all sin. In other words, we don’t die because we sin—we sin because we are dying. That’s a completely different gospel than the one you’re talking about, which is why you keep defaulting to forgiveness language instead of justification. Paul’s message in Romans 5:18–19 is that “through one transgression there is condemnation to all men, even so through one just award there is justification of life to all men,” and that through the obedience of the One, “the many will be constituted righteous.” This is not about a few forgiven; it’s about all ultimately justified and made alive.
You keep acting like the main issue is whether God forgives sins or not. Paul is dealing with something deeper: the reign of death and how Christ ends it. In 1 Corinthians 15:21–22, he says, “For since by a man came death, by a Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all are dying, thus also in Christ shall all be vivified.” The universality is the same on both sides: all in Adam = all dying; all in Christ = all made alive. That’s not your gospel of a few rescued and the rest abandoned; that’s Paul’s gospel of the abolition of death itself.
In the same chapter Paul walks us carefully through the mechanics of resurrection. He calls death “the last enemy” (1 Corinthians 15:26) and insists that it must be abolished. He says, “this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:53). When that happens, then comes the taunt: “Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory?” (1 Corinthians 15:54–55). You say death is not the main problem; Paul says death is the last enemy, the one Christ’s work is aimed at destroying.
So when you minimize death and make the gospel mainly about forgiving individual acts of sin while leaving death and its reign essentially untouched, you are not standing in Paul’s evangel—you’re importing a different message. Paul’s evangel is about justification of life, universal vivification, and the complete dismantling of sin and death through Christ’s cross and resurrection. If death really is abolished, if all in Adam really are made alive in Christ, then the problem is not merely “forgiveness” for a few; the problem is the universal condition of mortality—and the solution is Christ, who saves all and ends death in the fullness of times.
You actually expose your own misunderstanding when you say, “If death were the problem, then forgiveness, repentance, and justification would be unnecessary.” That statement proves you do not understand Paul’s gospel at all. You are so fixated on sin that you have missed what Christ actually came to deal with: death itself. Jesus did not merely forgive sins—He died for sin (Romans 5:8–10), and in doing so He struck at the root of the problem, which is mortality. Paul is explicit: “Through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and so death passed to all mankind” (Romans 5:12). We do not sin and then die—we die, and therefore we sin. Death is the disease; sin is the symptom.
Because you misunderstand this, you cling to forgiveness as if it were the gospel. But forgiveness belongs to the realm of law, failure, and Israel’s covenant system. Paul goes far beyond that. He proclaims justification—not the covering of sins, but the removal of all condemnation. “Having been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him” (Romans 5:9). Those who are justified are not merely forgiven; they are declared righteous, placed beyond accusation, and freed from the dominion of sin and death (Romans 8:1–2).
You are still trying to manage sin through law, self-discipline, and spiritual circumcision, while Paul proclaims something radically higher: Christ ended the old Adamic system entirely. “If one died for all, then all died” (2 Corinthians 5:14). That means the old humanity under law, guilt, and forgiveness has already been executed in Christ. God is no longer dealing with humanity as sinners needing forgiveness, but as a dead race being replaced by a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17–19).
Forgiveness belongs to a temporary age—especially to Israel under covenant, and to those who will be judged in relation to the Millennial Kingdom. Yes, Scripture teaches that some will miss that kingdom because of sin (1 Corinthians 6:9–10; Revelation 20:4–6). But missing the kingdom is not the same as being lost forever. Paul reveals what happens after the ages of judgment and rule are finished:
“As in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive… then comes the end… when death is abolished” (1 Corinthians 15:22–26).
That is justification. That is universal liberation from death itself. That is not forgiveness—it is the undoing of Adam. “Through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all mankind” (Romans 5:18). You can preach forgiveness all you want, but Paul preaches justification of life—a final state where sin, death, and condemnation no longer exist for anyone.
So when you limit the cross to Israel, law, repentance, and sin-management, you are preaching something far smaller than what Paul proclaimed. The cross did not merely give people a chance to be forgiven—it ended death, ended Adam, and guarantees the eventual vivification of all humanity (1 Corinthians 15:22–28; Colossians 1:20; 1 Timothy 4:10).
Forgiveness deals with failure.
Justification deals with death.
And Christ came to abolish death.
ebooks and paperback books:
Tract: What If Everything You’ve Been Told About God is Wrong
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FXBM4QGV#
Evil in the hands of a loving God
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FR68ZSB3
Unlearning Christianity: Exposing Christian Myth
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FQX7NX7D
In Perfect Control: God’s Sovereignty Over all Creatures and Every Detail
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FFQ8P9FW
Eternal Shores: A Love story of Grace and Truth
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FPT3HJMQ
Death Dies: How God Ends the Grave for Everyone
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FPGH2YRY
No Free Will, No Hell
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FP32Z8XD
The Potter’s Fire: The End of Empty Religion
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FNY9T3SJ
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