an email dialogue and word study
Hello, this is an email dialogue I’ve had with a person in disagreement with word meaning in scripture. If you want to take a deep dive into the words God uses in scripture, than have a read.
Email: Eternal punishment is taught in the Word of God and it’s dishonest to deny it. Matt 18:8, 25:41-46; Mark 3:29; Heb 6:2; 2 Thess 1:9; Jude 6-7 and Rev 20:14… What is your scriptural evidence against it? We can’t just make up our own doctrines. Jesus taught on hell more than anything else.
My answer: Hello, I assure you that an honest assessment shows that eternal punishment is certainly not taught anywhere in a properly translated scripture. We must realize how important it is to understand the words that God uses in scripture.
First, you said that “Jesus taught on hell more than anything else.” The truth is that ‘hell’ is an English word and Jesus didn’t speak English, so He never used the word ‘hell,’ ever, in all of scripture. Jesus used the word ‘Gehenna’ in the Greek scriptures which refers to the Valley of Hinnom just outside of Jerusalem. This was a garbage dump where dead bodies of criminals were thrown in Jesus’ day and has absolutely nothing to do with eternal conscious torment. The people of this day knew exactly what Gehenna was so why do you claim that Jesus speaking on ‘Gehenna’ is Jesus speaking on hell? Why would Jesus use a literal place that has nothing to do with eternal conscious torment to teach eternal conscious torment? Jesus does not talk about the concept of hell but instead scripture is misinterpreted by those who have invented this false doctrine.
Second, the word ‘eternal’ is a mistranslation. The Greek word used in the New Testament is ‘aion,’ Strong’s 165 and ‘aionion’ Strong’s 166. Aion properly translated means ‘age’ and aionion is the adjective form that means ‘agelong.’ This can easily be checked in scripture to prove that these words cannot mean eternal. One instance is Titus 1:3 which says God gives promises before times aionion. This word must mean ‘agelong’ otherwise how would God give promises before ‘eternity’ began?
We also must understand that Jesus spoke of the 1000 year kingdom, not eternity. Many will miss out on this kingdom. However, the glorified Christ told the apostle Paul of the time after the 1000 year kingdom when all will eventually be saved by Christ’s work on the cross.
My scriptural evidence against hell? Besides the fact that the word ‘hell’ is never used and the concept is not taught, these scriptures and many more make eternal separation from God an impossibility. Here are just a few:
10 (for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers (1 Timothy 4:10).
21 For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead. 22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified (1 Corinthains 15: 21-22). This verse does not say that all in Christ will be saved, but in Christ, ALL (the same all that die in Adam, everyone) will be saved.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all (1 Corinthians 15:28).
18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life’s justifying (Romans 5:18).
20 and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens (Colossians 1:20).
Romans 8:18-25 says that believers are firstfruits in order to save, not condemn, the rest of creation.
Romans 11:32 For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all. Hell shows mercy?
Hugh, please read these scriptures in context and tell me how eternal hell is possible? An honest study would show you that God will judge, condemn, be separate from His creation for ages of time. However, each in their own order, God will save all mankind through Christ’s death for sin, His entombment, and His resurrection. You don’t think Christ’s cross took care of sin? Scripture says it did. All are saved, believers first, then everybody else at the consummation. Please spend some time in 1 Corinthians 15: 21-28.
The scriptures you present in support of eternal hell are based on the false doctrine of hell developed by the traditions of man. These verses in no way teach eternal conscious torment.
Matt 18:8 – Jesus is speaking of the 1000 year kingdom using the foot and eye to implore people that it is better to stop what they are doing and enter the kingdom than to continue and miss the kingdom. Jesus is not teaching them to mutilate themselves. Remember, Jesus baptizes with fire which is a good thing. Fire, though painful, is symbolic of purification. Do you really think that Jesus is talking about literal fire when He baptizes in Matthew 3:12? Then He is not talking about literal fire here.
Matt 25:41-46 – Again, Jesus is not speaking of eternity but age of time. In fact, do a deep study on Matthew 25:46. The word used for eternal is aionion which means agelong and the word used for punishment is Kolasis which means corrective chastisement. So, this verse properly translated says “And these shall be coming away into agelong chastening, yet the just into life aionion.”
Mark 3:29 – These people have no pardon for the eon, not eternity. Please get a concordance to learn what these words mean. Are you suggesting that Jesus didn’t take care of this sin on the cross? Sin may exist for ages of time but Jesus Christ’s cross proves it will not exist for all eternity. Every enemy is eventually abolished, yet you think they remain forever?
Hebrews 6:2 – Judgement is not eternal and by the way…when people are judged they learn righteousness. Please look up Isaiah 26:9. What happens to the inhabitants of the earth when God judges them?
1 Thessalonians 1:9 – agelong extermination from the Lord. How could this be eternal if Paul says that the same all that die in Adam are part of the All in all of God (1 Cor. 15: 21,28).
Jude 6-7 talks about messengers kept in bondage until judgement day, not eternity. Justice is aionion or agelong fire, not eternal. The fire is purification as it is said that Jesus baptizes with Holy Spirit and fire. You really think this fire doesn’t have a purifying effect when it is the result of Jesus baptizing?
Revelation 20:14 – this says “And they were condemned, each in accord with their acts.” Where does it say this is eternal. These people are “cast into the lake of fire-which is the second death.” Tell me what happens to those in death (second death, first death, any death) when death is abolished? 1 Corinthians 15: 25-27 says death will be abolished and yet you think it lasts for eternity?
I have no doubt that people are cast off for the 1000 year kingdom and during the ‘new heavens and the new earth’ age, some will be in the lake of fire. However, when these two glorious ages are complete, sin and death are abolished and will exist nowhere in God’s perfected universe. In the fullness of time, Christ’s death for sin, His entombment, and His resurrection will reach every creature created by God (Colossians 1: 15-20).
His response: So what you are saying is that nothing in our Bibles is as it seems and it should be discarded altogether. I do have a concordance but have been busy on other things. So far, everything has been mostly correct in its translation. I don’t know if you are familiar with NDEs but there are a number of them that describe a hot pit of fire where there is torment over sin and the participants are not allowed to leave. I’ve never done a deep study on this because eternal punishment used together multiple times seemed pretty clear. I have to admit it is unsettling to hear someone tell me that the Bible I’ve read for over 50 years is completely useless because it was written through the lens of men and not inspired by the Spirit. Wow. Just wow.
My response: That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying that everything in scripture is inspired by God and useful. That is exactly why we need to know what God said. Bibles have been mistranslated for years and it takes a bit of work to separate what God says in inspired scripture from mistranslations over the years. So, are you saying its not important to understand what words the inspired writers actually used? Are you suggesting we rely on Rome to translate scripture based on their ignorance of the Greek and desire to control people with the thought of hell?
I think you should be more unsettled in the fact that you have not done a ‘deep dive’ on eternal hell, nor have studied the scripture that clearly proves that God will eventually save all creation through Christ’s death for sin, His entombment, and His resurrection. Instead, you have just accepted the false doctrine of eternal hell.
As far as NDEs go, the key word is ‘NEAR.’ The mind and demons play tricks on a dying brain. However, whatever these people see is not ‘in death’ because the dead ‘know nothing’ according to Ecclesiates 9:5. So anything they know or see would be while they were still alive because in death, there is no consciousness. I trust scripture, not NDEs.
Side note, how could a person be sent to hell before they are judged? The great white throne judgement doesn’t take place until after Christ’s 1000 year reign.
You haven’t responded to the scripture I’ve presented, nor am I asking you to. But, please ponder them and look at the questions I’ve presented. Then, take finding out what the inspired writers of scripture actually said seriously. If not, you will never know what God has actually said.
His response: Strongs… Eternal – forever, 166, aionion; Punishment – punishment, torment, 2851 kolasis; Lake – lake, pond, 3041, limne; Fire – on fire, fry, burn, 4448, puroo… What concordance are you reading, Deep Dive?
My response:
We look at a concordant to see what words were used in the original scripture and then study what those words actually mean. I prefer A.E. Knoch’s concordant Old and New Testament: https://www.concordant.org/
For instance, AE Knoch uses one Hebrew/Greek word for one Engish word. Strong’s uses 166 to mean agelong and eternal. How can a word be an opposite of itself? The KJV that influences Strong’s work, in my opinion, uses one Greek word to mean multiple English words so the meaning is distorted. In Titus 1:2, aionion 166 is used twice, once translated as time and once translated as eternal. How can a word mean time and the absence of time? The translators knew that nothing could happen before eternity began, so they translated it time. But, in the very same sentence they left the same word 166 to mean ‘eternal.’ This proves they knew that word means ‘agelong or pertaining to time.’
Strongs defines word 165, ‘aion’ as follows: Noun. a space of time, an age
Strongs defines word 166, ‘aionios’ as follows: Adjective. agelong, eternal
Do you see the problem here? The noun ‘aion (165)’ means age. So, how can the adjective form of the word take on an opposite meaning of the base word it comes from? It would be like saying hour means something different than hourly. The Greek word ‘aion’ means age. So, why would its adjective mean eternal? Makes no sense.
Not to mention that Strongs uses the definition of 166 aionios to mean agelong and eternal. This is not possible because agelong refers to time and eternity is the complete absence of time.
This is the influence of the King James Version and bad translations. With whatever concordance you use, it must be checked with scripture to determine proper meaning. I will show you that scripture proves that these words absolutely cannot mean eternal.
Again, eternity is not a very long time. Eternity means the absence of time. So, no word can mean its opposite. Therefore, a word cannot mean agelong and eternal. Its one or the other, not to mention that the adjective form of the word cannot mean something opposite of its noun form.
So my point…Strongs 165 aion and 166 aionios both have to do with ages of time or eternity. It has to be one or the other, not both.
*Revelation 11:15 – “The kingdom of this world became our Lord’s and His Christ’s, and He shall be reigning for ever (165) and ever (165)! Amen!” This according to the KJV. So, does Strongs word ‘aion’ here mean eternal or age? First, how can Christ rule forever and ever? Are there two eternities? Of course not. Plus, the usage of ‘aion 165’ absolutely cannot mean ‘forever or eternal’ in this verse because JESUS CHRIST’S REIGN COMES TO AN END. HE DOES NOT REIGN FOREVER.
1 Corinthians 15: 25-26 – For He (Christ) must be reigning UNTIL He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. Then, once death is abolished, the Son Himself is subjected to God (v27,28).
** Jonah 2:6 I went down to the moorings of the mountains; The earth with its bars closed behind me forever; Yet You have brought up my life from the pit, O LORD, my God. Now, as I’m sure you know, the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek. So, each Hebrew word has a Greek equivalent in order to translate the Hebrew into the Greek. ‘Olam’ Storngs word 5679 is the Hebrew equivalent to ‘aion 165 and aionios 166.’ The word Olam is defined as long duration. So, again, not eternal.
So Olam in the Hebrew is equivalent to aion and aionios in Greek. In Jonah 2:6 this word ‘olam’ is used to describe how long Jonah was in the belly of the fish. The KJV and other bibles translate it as ‘forever’ or ‘eternal’ and yet…we know Jonah was only in the belly of the fish for three days. In Jonah 2:10, scripture says that God released him.
So olam, aion, and aionion all have equivalent meanings. How can this be ‘forever, eternal’ if Jonah was released after three days. Are three days and eternal the same thing? No. Its impossible for these words to mean forever, eternal.
***Titus 1:2 in hope of eternal (166) life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time (166) began. Nothing is more dishonest than Titus 1:2. Here, in the very same sentence the word ‘aionion 166’ is translated in two different ways. Shameful.
The KJV says ‘in hope of eternal (aionion) life’ the Greek word aionion is translated to mean eternal. The translators know this is not the right translation because the word aionion is used again when talking about God making promises before ‘time (aionion) began.’ The KJV people knew that nothing could happen before eternity began so they translated the word properly to mean time. However, this proves the same word used earlier in the sentence cannot mean ‘eternal.’ It should be translated as ‘agelong’ life.
****1 Timothy 1:4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. There is a Greek word that means ‘endless.’ If God wanted to talk about something ‘endless’ then He would have used this word: 562 aperantos.
This word that means ‘endless’ is used once in all of scripture in 1 Timothy 1:4. God didn’t use this word in scripture when denoting life or death for the ages, He used aion and aionion because those words mean agelong and pertaining to an age.
Separate message from same person: I have trouble wrapping my mind around a creator who would doom people to hell before they’re born. He knows what people are going to do before the foundation of the world and from what I read, most people are going to hell. I can’t understand it and I don’t see how anyone can understand it?
My response: God is love and dooming people to eternal hell is ‘not love.’ So, one of these are false. God does all. He chooses for some people to remain in disbelief and miss the glorious 1000 year rule of Christ, some will be in the lake of fire during ‘the new heavens and new earth age.’ However, nobody is doomed in hell for eternity. At the consummation, God will be All in all that die in Adam (1 Corinthians 15: 21-22, 28). Every creature ever created will be reconciled to God through the blood of the cross (Colossians 1:15-20). See God has a special salvation for believers in that they get in early, however, unbelievers are not cut off forever because they still have a salvation that comes later (1 Timothy 4:10).
God doesn’t just know what people are going to do, He plans the end from the beginning (Isiah 46:10) and He writes our days in His scroll before one of them came to be (Psalms 139:16). Get this, God does what He pleases with people on earth (Daniel 4:35) and He wills all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4). God gets what He wants.
Grace and peace to you all…
Saved ignoble 
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